Tuesday, April 8, 2014

Referencing "Child"

It wasn’t until yesterday, April 6, 2014 CE, when we read the post on our blogsite from Blackbird, that we realized how our words could be misconstrued by those wanting to push their own agenda or wanting an excuse to denigrate more than forty-five (45) years’ work by the Frosts in promoting Wicca. Thank you, Blackbird, for your post; but please note: The text reads: sponsor or father.

The regrettable problem that has bugged us for forty (40) years now is this: Everyone concentrated on the word phallus instead of on the possible problem of misinterpreting the word child. We truly are sorry that people did this. If someone had told us what their real objection was, we could have corrected it.

In writing the chapter, we started out naturally enough talking about the sealing and blessing of children, and carried on then to the next step of first initiation. Unfortunately, we continued to use the word child through both those sections of the chapter. It was never our intent to say that anyone under eighteen (18) years of age should be initiated. In the preface to the revised version of Good Witch’s Bible we clearly stated that fact--in English.

The chapter was rewritten in June, 1969 CE, as Lecture IV of the School’s Essential Witchcraft course. That lecture deleted mention of the phallus. The School also does have a study relationship with parents of young adults. They have a special contract asking both the young adult and the parent to sign stating that the parent will supervise the student's progress every step of the way. This is to honor the special need that young people have to express their personal identity through exploration, in a healthy manner, and to honor the requests of modern marketing. Modern marketing is something most of you are painfully aware, given that one of you making regular comments uses our writings to link to his books and another one of you brags of the enormous increase in traffic to her blog postings because she has chosen to discuss this current negative controversy. So much of this nonsense is internet marketplace driven, because you somehow imagine that you launching yourself based on a negative platform will do something beneficial for YOU, not your spiritual path. Are you enjoying your hubris, thinking you have something new to add? Growing your business or website traffic based on people's pain? Really? How exactly do you believe you are honoring the Rede with that mess?

As things stand now, we will modify the extant copies of Good Witch’s Bible remaining on our shelves so that no further people can be misled.

17 comments:

Ron Firedrake said...

The propensity of people in many organizations to dramatize things without any basis in reality is really atrocious. Alas it is society following the lead of the government in spewing falsehoods to cover their own culpability in deceiving the populous.

It is too bad the the lives of those who slander and libel others are so devoid of meaning that they must get their buzz from scurrilous accusations.

Perhaps also, the rumors are planted by old enemies - who have been proven, time and time again, to be wrong - with the intent of discrediting the works done by honest and forthright individuals.

Mydnite Cynderella said...

Thank you for the post Gavin. I have passed it on to the sheeples who continue to spew their negativity and trample the truth beneath their hooves. Let us pray that their tongues speak only kindness and blessings.

Love and Light.

Witch n FL said...

I'm Sorry but I call BS on that!! In your 2007 version of the GWB you say: "When a child develops to a stage where the physical attributes of reproduction are present, he can become a full member of the coven. This is a landmark in the child’s life, when he is made to understand his new capabilities and responsibilities. Wicca do not threaten their children into submission or bring them up as suppressed perverts. The parents relinquish the spiritual guidance of the children to the coven, and warn them that temporal authority will also soon be outside the family."

You are clearly talking about a CHILD moving into adolescence. Check your pants... I'm sure they are on fire!!

Mydnite Cynderella said...

Well Goody for you Witch in FL. You've managed to tear the FPG to pieces with your BS. What you are quoting is out of date AND numerous, I repeat, NUMEROUS messages, comments, blogs, addendums to the GWB and by Gavin Frost have been made over the years explaining this. Stop believing that little snippet someone gave you or told you to read on the internet.....do some real research starting in 1979. Instead of sticking your head up someone else's rear end and believing their BS.

Furthermore, I want to thank you for helping tear this nation's Pagan Community apart once again over some thing that was hashed out 40 years ago.

The FPG has declared that statements such as yours are, and I quote them directly,

"The messages recently posted on social media by some festival guests have been libelous,inflammatory, polarizing, and even outright inaccurate.

The result of this has created a double-edged sword, cutting at each side of the group simultaneously. On one side
there are individuals who have decided not to attend the festival because they objected
to certain guests who were going to be in attendance.

The vitriol in their posts has
created an opposing group of people within the FPG family who will now also not be
attending, as they are unhappy with the messages posted and no longer want to be
associated with the people posing them. The final result of this polarization has
destroyed any opportunities for any of these people to exchange respectful views in an
open face to face forum.

There are no winners here, just the loss to the community as a
whole. Longtime friendships have been broken, regards for other’s opinions diminished,
and the loss of group diversity that the people who are no long going to attend brought to
the festival.

So it looks like you've done a hell of a bunch of damage to the nation's Pagan Community. Way the hell more than G&Y Frost EVER did with their little, often misquoted and rarely understood book, just by wagging your tongue over something you know NOTHING about.

Gavin Frost said...

It is clear to us that there are so many good people within the Pagan and Wiccan communities that do not need to support this. There are so many good intentioned people, however, much like US politics, the current of popular opinion tends to follow the loud mouthed minority. We meet so many wonderful people, and see that there are those who would do nothing to tear down to support their own agendas. Those people are very few, but they are very loud. This debate is not representative of Wicca or Paganism. It does represent fear. We read one post claiming "unnamed adult survivors of abuse" had come forward, but we have yet to meet these people and would gladly work with their healing process if they came to us privately. Best wishes all, it is time to put this energy to constructive behaviors, not creative imaginings or this filth that the loud mouthed minority continues to imagine and spew as if it were reality. Most people that struggle with hallucinations seek professional help -- please go see a local, well-qualified psychologist to help you with your personal concerns. (I apologize, this is not Gavin or Yvonne writing this although we are still logged in to their account.)

Gavin Frost said...

I am at a loss. We have regularly offered a lecture on the true history of our view of Wicca, and have answered every question. We have written over twenty other books. It seems to me that anyone can take pieces and quote them out of context and make us out to be devils incarnate. Typically the Florida witch quoted a para that has no relevance to the discussion. If you don't agree with us, say so and say why. Suggest a way to improve our thinking. Wicca needs open debate; otherwise it will become just as dogmatic as other, more mainstream religions. Another quote from "that awful book" page 241:
"Don't blindly follow the methods we advocate, but when you make changes, do it with understanding. Beware the destroyers."
Those who want to can continue this game forever; we are through playing.

Jane Dew said...

Gavin, What do you mean by the passage, "When a child develops to a stage where the physical attributes of reproduction are present, he can become a full member of the coven"?

Cindy Ferguson said...

The real problem at hand is pedophiles are hideing behind the gwb. The courts are allowing the book into evidence stating we as a community allow this to happen to our children. No matter how many times you say thats not how it was ment. Pedophiles are getting away with molesting children saying its part of their religious views and the gwb is proof. No matter how much one takes back or tries to put out there what was really ment there are people in the world who are going to twist things to benifit their needs to justify their actions. We being enlightened beings need to correct the damage and not allow pedophiles to hide behind our most sacred ritual "the great rite" to prey on children, and ony get probation due to the "evidence" in the gwb.

Cindy Ferguson said...

We all know there is power in the written word. This being said the gwb has given pedophiles the ability to molest children in the name of religious views. At this point in time it truly doesn't matter weather the Frost's actually preformed what is in the gwb or not. What matters is in the gwb it pretty much says its ok preform pedophilia.

Cindy Ferguson said...

Gavin, just so you know, im not attacking you or your wife personally. However I am speaking from personal experience. My daughter's attacker hid behind the gwb. I knew the man for 20 years. Never once thought he would do this to any of my children. Both of us followed the pagan path. The court allowed the gwb in to evidence to prove " that it is all part of being pagan" and only got probation for what he did to her. The gwb is protecting pedophiles. The world is changing and what was once practiced isnt allowed or is obsolete due to medical science advances. Our elders used to get married at 11 and 12 years old but it didnt mean the 11 or 12 year girl could handle married life or having children. The way things once was isn't always the way the world is now.

Cindy Madill-Maracle said...

Hi Gavin, if people who think these negative things need to detour their energies into something more appropriate like Helping mother Earth thru this very difficult transition she is going thru. Our oceans are dying we need all the Positive Energy WE ALL CAN MUSTER UP to help her heal herself from the damage we have done. Plus your a Wiccan it is literally against your Religion as in the Wiccan Rede " AND DO NO HARM " plus the Three Fold Law I doubt youd b so sucessful for this many years. The only thing I disagree w is your prices are high!!! Blessed Be Gavin, Horizon

Cindy Madill-Maracle said...

Hi Gavin, if people who think these negative things need to detour their energies into something more appropriate like Helping mother Earth thru this very difficult transition she is going thru. Our oceans are dying we need all the Positive Energy WE ALL CAN MUSTER UP to help her heal herself from the damage we have done. Plus your a Wiccan it is literally against your Religion as in the Wiccan Rede " AND DO NO HARM " plus the Three Fold Law I doubt youd b so sucessful for this many years. The only thing I disagree w is your prices are high!!! Blessed Be Gavin, Horizon

Richard Douglas Thomas said...

Thank you Mydnite Cynderella; I couldn't have said it better myself! I have grown up with the teachings of the Frost 's since 1974. I am also lucky enough to call them friends. If not for the Frost 's, I and countless other wouldn't be the powerful and learned Witches we are today.
Due to that SMALL group of persons from FPG and the supporters they have corralled that have never attended FPG, I have had to cancel my attendances at festivals to avoid conflict. These idiots gave painted FPG and the wonderful Pagan Community in Florida in a negative light across the International Pagan Community. It is a sad thing when the minority becomes bullies and hurts those whom should be revered as Founding Mother and Father of our Paths.
Again I applaud you for your defense of the Frosts and to Gavin & Yvonne; I will be a Soldier in the Army to defend and protect your Honor! I love you both with Perfect Love & Perfect Trust, yours always, RD

Richard Douglas Thomas said...

Thank you Mydnite Cynderella; I couldn't have said it better myself! I have grown up with the teachings of the Frost 's since 1974. I am also lucky enough to call them friends. If not for the Frost 's, I and countless other wouldn't be the powerful and learned Witches we are today.
Due to that SMALL group of persons from FPG and the supporters they have corralled that have never attended FPG, I have had to cancel my attendances at festivals to avoid conflict. These idiots gave painted FPG and the wonderful Pagan Community in Florida in a negative light across the International Pagan Community. It is a sad thing when the minority becomes bullies and hurts those whom should be revered as Founding Mother and Father of our Paths.
Again I applaud you for your defense of the Frosts and to Gavin & Yvonne; I will be a Soldier in the Army to defend and protect your Honor! I love you both with Perfect Love & Perfect Trust, yours always, RD

Bob said...

A "child" is a person who has not yet reached puberty. All the major religions, including traditional paganism, has "coming of age" rituals to recognize post puberty young adults who are then considered "of age." Over the past half century the whole concept and the words have been greatly misused by hateful agenda people who want to pretend that adults of child bearing age are still "children."

Michelle Flood said...

I really love how people hide behind screen names that are vague and ambiguous. Cowards. Looking forward to the Round Table meeting. Even if I only have to stare down the bullies in the room and never even get to say a word.

Witch n FL said...

Zoe, I assume you were referring to me. So nyone who wants to who I am it's Ray Romanowicz.