Monday, October 1, 2007

Toledo, Here We Come

We will attend the Samhain Spirit Festival Fireheart in Toledo, Ohio.
Please note: To attend the festival, you must currently be a member of Spirit Weavers
www.spiritweavers.org/samhain_registration.htm
The festival will run from Friday evening October 19 through Sunday morning October 21. Friday night is a potluck meal, so make and bring a favorite food and non-alcoholic beverage to share.
On Saturday afternoon we will present a workshop on Power Raising and Circle Dancing.
We will also speak on Tuesday October 23 at 7 p.m. at the
First Unity Church of Toledo, 3535 Executive Parkway.
Although this latter event is free, a donation of $10 is requested.
Samhain Spirit Festival Fireheart Spirit Weavers is a safe, sacred community. We want everyone to enjoy themselves and to grow together in all the sacred workings. Of course we will answer any honest questions; but in fairness we warn everyone that the Festival must not be disrupted by negative behavior. It is a sacred spiritual event.
Blessed be those of open heart. Gavin and Yvonne

24 comments:

ajdrew said...

Funny, just a couple of weeks ago the event was open to the public. What changed their minds?

ajdrew said...

In fact, the web site still says non members are welcome… as are children with no comment on their parents or legal guardians being in attendance, nor any permission slip required. As I understand the registration form, children from the ages of 11 – 17 are even given 50% off the adult price to encourage them to attend. Considering what the main speakers, Gavin and Yvonne Frost, have written I find this highly inappropriate.

Children should not be encouraged to attend such events without parental permission. In fact, I believe that is an underline policy in the majority of the pagan community. Then again, as parental permission is not mandated by the Church and School of Wicca, I don’t know why I would expect such from events that they attend and promote.

Mr. Edward Anderson said...

Mr. Drew, there is nothing on the site that says they are the "main speakers." Would you be so kind as to either show where this is so or acknowledge that you are misrepresenting the facts?

Thank you.

suz said...

Do you even think about what you type? Your first response suggests the event somehow mysteriously stopped being open to the public, and your next one reveals this is a flat out lie. All the brouhaha about permission slips does not negate the fact that you are trying, once again, to spread rumors and innuendoes which have no basis in fact.

Every pagan event I have ever been to requires parents to be with their children at all times, so all this blather about "parental permission" is irrelevant.

Please stop with the lies.

i love god with all of my heart. said...

okay.so..i am a 14 year old female and here is what i have to say.i am not wiccan nor will i ever be.i believe in the god almighty who lives heaven above.how can you not believe in him?i mean let me see you try to build a mountain.or calm a raging storm.let me se uyou heal a blind man,or raise a man from the grave.better yet let me see you raise up from the grave.you cant can you.thats because there is no other God besides the one who sits on heavens throne.he is stronger, more powerful and more courageous than any of your so called "spells". im not trying to tell you how to live your life but i am telling you that th ebible clearly states that you are wrong.&& though i am not your judge,it looks to me like your poor helpless soul will burn in hell for eternity. i pray for people that do not believe in god each and everyday.and i will continue to do so.someday whether you are alive or not.you will learn that the god in heaven is the only god.&& that there are no such things as spells or curses.only satan who tries to mess with your head so you will spend eternity with him.satan himself knows god is real && he trembles at the sound of his name.God is real.i challenge you to get to know him.

i love god with all of my heart. said...

okay.so..i am a 14 year old female and here is what i have to say.i am not wiccan nor will i ever be.i believe in the god almighty who lives heaven above.how can you not believe in him?i mean let me see you try to build a mountain.or calm a raging storm.let me se uyou heal a blind man,or raise a man from the grave.better yet let me see you raise up from the grave.you cant can you.thats because there is no other God besides the one who sits on heavens throne.he is stronger, more powerful and more courageous than any of your so called "spells". im not trying to tell you how to live your life but i am telling you that th ebible clearly states that you are wrong.&& though i am not your judge,it looks to me like your poor helpless soul will burn in hell for eternity. i pray for people that do not believe in god each and everyday.and i will continue to do so.someday whether you are alive or not.you will learn that the god in heaven is the only god.&& that there are no such things as spells or curses.only satan who tries to mess with your head so you will spend eternity with him.satan himself knows god is real && he trembles at the sound of his name.God is real.i challenge you to get to know him.

fenix said...

I believe in God AND Goddess.


Please don't come here to preach.

ajdrew said...

Mr. Anderson - Gee, you got me there. They are the ONLY authors listed as speaking at the event. Their workshop is the only workshop listed on the description page.

http://www.spiritweavers.org/samhain.htm

But I certianly conceed that the event did not use the term "main speakers". Which, btw, is why I did not put quotes around the term.

Suz - The Frosts blog says it is not open to the public.

Gavin and Yvonne Frost "Please note: To attend the festival, you must currently be a member of Spirit Weavers"

I RESPONDED that the statement was funny because just a week ago it was open to the public and ASKED what changed their minds.

Then, upon realizing that the site the Frosts posted the link to says that it IS open to the public, in fact they charge an extra fee for non-members, I posted again illustrating that they had not, as the Frosts indicated, changed their minds.

You are right. It -IS- a flat out lie. One I was ASKING about after reading the Frosts "flat out lie" as you put it.

Suz said: "Every pagan event I have ever been to requires parents to be with their children at all times"

Sirius Rising requires parents to only be with a child if they are 11 years of age or younger. I think the same is true of Starwood. Both, however, require that a parent be present at the event.

I am simply sudjesting that as the programming of this event includes speakers who have written what many consider to be a pedophelic instrucitonal, that parents should be warned about what it is that their children may be exposed to.

After all, the Frosts have not yet apologized for the book. But hey, what ever. If you want to run a pagan festival, cut discounts to attract kids, and bring in speakers who seem to have promoted pedophelia... well you have at it.

Blue Skull said...

Hello i love god with all my heart,

Thanks for taking the time to share your beliefs. You are an interesting young lady.

My belief is that everybody goes to Mictlan/Xibalba/Hell after death. It is a temporary existence but a necessary one. The only persons who get to pass straight into one of the levels of Heaven are those that die in war, childbirth, drown, or killed by lightning. And there is a possibility that the Goddess Ixtab will protect those who commit suicide and escort them straight to Her Paradise. But who really knows the truth?

And like fenix said, "Please don't come here to preach." You see, we have enough people preaching already and there is no more room at the pulpit (lol).

Good Night,
David H.
Houston, Texas

Mr. Edward Anderson said...

Mr. Drew, they're so "important" that the schedule seen at http://www.spiritweavers.org/samhain_schedule.htm doesn't even list them. That hardly makes them "main speakers."

ajdrew said...

Mr. Anderson (still cant write that without a Matrix moment) - One page lists them as the only workshop being promoted and the only published author speaking. Another doesnt list them at all. Guess I looked at the wrong page to have an intelligent coversation with you. I should be flogged.

Oh well, I don't think the conversation matters much as from what I can tell this blog will be overrun with anti-pagan folk soon who want to bless everyone.

Mr. Edward Anderson said...

Mr. Drew, I fear you are correct.

As Crowley wrote, "As brothers fight ye!"

But with the wackadoodle fundies my only suggestion is:

Please don't feed the trolls!

The Voice of Reason said...

Always drawing attention to himself....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tSlZcJXKy4

THIS is your leader.....follow the man on the roof.

Uh, yeah....right

The Pagan Temple said...

I copied and pasted, but the link was said to be wrong, so I went to YouTube, typed AJ Drew into the search engine and copied this link from the page. I don't see any difference in the two links though. Just go to YouTube and look for AJ Drew, there are two pages worth.

I don't even know what is going on there. Dial-up doesn't work for YouTube, plus I can't hear it anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tSlZcJXKy4

The Pagan Temple said...

By the way, does anybody else think it's strange that a fourteen year old Christian girl would open a blogger account just to post a comment on this blog?

wushih said...

Maybe it isn't a 14 year old girl but is an adult who is posing as a 14 year old girl.

The Pagan Temple said...

Wushih-

Uh huh, just what I was thinking. Take special note of comment number two, by AJ Drew, and the response by Suz in comment number four, paragraph two, directly before the comment of the "child".

Of course, it could be a coincidence and she could be suthentic, but it doesn't matter, as I personally don't debate religion with kids.

Of course, it could also be a spambot.

ajdrew said...

Pagan Temple – Of course it is a participant in this blog pretending to be a 14 year old girl. Its what a percentage of people in forums tend to do. Not that I am all that happy with such folk, but it is what they do. I kind of expect it. If the Frosts wanna take a gander at the IP addresses, I am fairly sure they will be able to decide who it is since I –think- we are all from different geographical locations.

Spambot? Naw, they don’t tend to hit only one account.

Mr. Anderson – Concerning what AC wrote and you referenced, yes he did say that. I think you and I could enjoy a good conversation or two.

The Voice of Reason said: “Always drawing attention to himself....” and provided a link to a youtube.com video of myself. The same video is uploaded at http://PaganNation.com (I wrote a youtube type program for Pagan Nation some time ago and folk upload their videos there).

http://video.pagannation.com/show_video.cgi/parse/165

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tSlZcJXKy4

Uh ye. When things are slow at work, I do things to get customers to notice the booth. It is called “hawking” and I have fun with it. The woman, Missy, who is screaming something like ‘A.J. I wanna smell you!’ is making a funny about some of my topical medication. She says it turns women on and I role played the comment into being on the roof trying to keep her at bay with a sword.

The Voice of Reason then said in reference to the video: “THIS is your leader.....follow the man on the roof.”

Ya know, I keep saying that I am not some guru or heep big mojo man. I am just a blogging blacksmith. Here I am on the roof of my smithy at a Renaissance Festival having fun and drawing attention to the booth by yelling: “Shinny Things” (a reference to the swords and knives we sell in our booth below). It’s part of what we Rennies do. It is a form of hawking and entertainment for the people who attend the event. Its kind of like merging acting with salesmanship. So do you imply that this is something to be ashamed of? Missy, the woman who posted the thing, is a friend of mine who sometimes works in the booth. If it was something I was ashamed of, I would probably have asked her not to. So please understand that I honestly have no clue what you are getting at.

Blue Skull said...

Dear Gavin & Yvonne,

You both look great in the new picture you posted to head up your blog. Thanks for sharing it with us.

The picture of Jimmi Hendrix caught my eye. I am a big Jimmi Hendrix fan. The night my friend and I were going to the theater to see the new movie about Woodstock, we were shocked when the DJ on the radio announced Jimmi had passed away. My friend really loved Jimmi.

Jimmi is a prophet and his lyrics were Divinely inspired at times. The song "Up From The Sky" exemplifies this fact:

I just want to talk to you

I won't uh, do you no harm

I just want to know about your different lives

On this is here people farm

I heard some of you got your families

Living in cages tall and cold

And some just stay there and dust away

Past the age of old.

Is this true ?

Please let me talk to you.



I just wanna know about

The rooms behind your minds

Uh do I see a vacuum there

Or am I going blind ?

Or is it just uh, remains of vibrations

And echoes long ago ?

Uh things like "Love the world" and uh

Uh "Let your fancy flow"

Is this true ?

Please let me talk to you

Let me talk to you.



I have lived here before

The days of ice

And of course this is why

I'm so concerned

And I come back to find

The stars misplaced

And the smell of a world

That is burned

A smell of a world

That is burned.



Yeah well, maybe, hmm...

Maybe it's just a... change of climate

Hmm, hmm...

Well I can dig it

I can dig it baby

I just want to see.



So where do I purchase my ticket ?

I'd just like to have a ringside seat

I want to know about the new Mother Earth

I want to hear and see everything

I want to hear and see everything

I want to hear and see everything

Yeah...



Aww, shucks

If my daddy could see me now

Everything, everything, everything, oh everything.



Jimi Hendrix

The Pagan Temple said...

Gavin, Yvonne-

Cool picture. You had some trouble with that, didn't you? I noticed earlier when I come on that your homepage was acting up, was out of line and had no picture at first. Or, it could have been my computer wasn't picking it up right.

That's the thing about these blogs. They can really be a pain learning all the ins and outs, but the more you learn, the more fun you can have with them.

Jim Hootsell said...

Great Picture! You two look younger than when I witnessed your demonstration of dance styles, at Samhain 2001, Greenleaf Coven. Proves that endorphine release increases mental and physical Health. Yvonne has stars in her eyes and charging the magick hat with seventh chakra Energy!

Thank you for sharing knowledge, that helped me improve greatly my Life, and my childrens, in our own home. Right choices with Awareness.

Mr.-E.-Anderson said...

Well, this event has come and gone. On the forums of Mr. Drew's website is a discussion of how many of them want to go to confront the Frosts. One person even wrote that she wanted to be a part of a lynching! (Several posts later she made the weak excuse that she was only "joking" about the "lynchmob," but would challenge them to "actually make me believe they aren't sexual deviants.")

Well, the event took place several days ago. One person named "Bubba" posted on those forums asking if anyone attended. Nobody has responded. You would think that with so many people ready to attack the Frosts, and the event being practically in Mr. Drew's backyard, somebody would have attended. Someone would have confronted them. But nobody did. Not even Mr. Drew.

Mr. Drew has spent years assaulting in writing the Frosts. Here was a chance to confront these "terrible" people, but he didn't show. Nor did any of his groupies. Why?

The answer is quite simple: without Lex Luthor, there is no need for Superman.

Mr. Drew will never do anything that would actually have more than a minor effect on the Frosts. Never. He needs them. They have become his obsessive raison d'etre! Eliminate the Frosts and he would have no place to turn with his obsessive behavior. As I have pointed out it is quite likely that he could turn it onto his friends or relatives.

But for now he is quite content to feed is destructive obsessions by screaming about the Frosts and performing what I have no doubt will be meaningless and powerless rites to exorcize their effigies. Like a fish out of water he will flop around and make a lot of noise, but he wants to keep his foes available so he can fly in like Superman to rescue Wicca when, in fact, there's no need for a rescue and his actions are more those of mild-mannered Clark Kent than the Man of Steel.

And what about his groupies? Did they attend? No. Not a one. Even though this is soooooo important to them, they have their jobs and their children and a lack of transportation yada yada yada. They'd rather get on their computers and make wild, unsubstantiated claims than actually do something.

Wicca is a faith that empowers those who follow it. The fact that they disempower themselves with their nasty, libelous, unsubstantiated claims shows that they are not Wiccans at all. They aren't the defenders of the faith or even the defenders of children they claim to be. If they were, they would act. But they have more important things to do.

Actor Marjoe Gortner started out as a minister, eventually revealing how he deceived people in the autobiographical movie Marjoe. One of the things he did was use a trick to make a cross appear on his forehead during the middle of his preaching.

It would seem that Mr. Drew and his groupies have the same sort of symbol on their foreheads, except it's the letter "L" for Losers.

For Mr. Drew, due to his mental illness manifesting as this multi-year ineffective obsession I can hope that he gets some help and gets better. His actions, as a result of his disease, are understandable if not acceptable. But for his groupies, it's just a sad example of their own feelings of powerlessness and wishing to latch on to someone they think will give them some of their own fame, but not realizing they are simply mirroring a man with an illness. Mr. Drew has no choice, but they do. And that makes their actions just sad.

Raven said...

Speaking as one who was present for Gavin and Yvonne's presentation, they addressed the controversy by reiterating that none should undertake a sexual rite until they reach the age of eighteen (18), and that we must base our beliefs and practices on logical opinions and our own intuition, not something written in a book or told to us by an authority figure. It is unreasonable for us to expect the Frosts to continue to repeat these responses ad infinitum. Adding new twists to the arguments attacking them does nothing to dismiss the strength of their stance, nor does ignoring their clarifications and continuing to repeat a blatant misdirection in an increasingly louder tone. This might pass muster for the right-wing news commentators of America, but pagans should hold themselves to a higher standard. If Mr. Drew wished to do some good, perhaps he could direct his anger toward religious leaders who have actually been found guilty of sexual misconduct. Might I suggest he begin with the Catholic Church?

Mr.-E.-Anderson said...

Unfortunately, Raven, Mr. Drew does not wish "to do some good," nor will he "direct his anger toward religious leaders who have actually been found guilty of sexual misconduct." Mr. Drew is obsessed. It makes no difference to him if the Frosts have done anything he dislikes. It make no difference if his attacks on the Frosts (and on anyone who doesn't attack the Frosts with him) have any effect in the real world. It makes no difference to Mr. Drew if he splits and destroys Paganism. To him, all that matters is his obsession and everyone and everything else can just as well be damned. That's typical of someone who is obsessed.

However, in Mr. Drew's case, this is a clear manifestation of a mental illness. It's not simply that he has a focus on something. Rather, he exhibits all of the behaviors the would result in a diagnosis of an obsessive disorder by a licensed professional who is following the concepts of the DSM IV. So I feel sorry for Mr. Drew due to his illness. I don't blame him for his obsessions and illness, but I will stand up and confront it.

But I do blame his groupies who have no such mental illness but merely think he is a "personality" and by blindly following whatever he says, like lemming going over a cliff, agree with him without any thought for logic, reason, fairness, or the U.S. Constitution.

There will come a time when Mr. Drew is either incarcerated for illegal, anti-social behavior caused by his illness, or when he is committed for treatment. At that time, his groupies will have to stand in shame for their character assassinations, misrepresentations, and their ignoring of facts. They are what philosopher Eric Hoffer called "The True Believer." They will have much to answer for.